Peter G wrote:However, it must be pointed out that calling a 17% extraction "underextracted" is relative to that study. Please understand- I support this standard and defend it. I hesitate to be too hard on those who practice a less efficient extraction, however, because I recognize that there might be a time and a place for less efficient extractions when used by a competent professional who knows what she is doing.
John P wrote:In regards to the ExtractMojo, I am interested in how grind affects extraction on brewed coffee. Can you get the same extraction with (slightly) less coffee and a finer grind? Can the manipulation of coffee, grind, dwell time in different ways produce the same results?
Peter G wrote: it must be pointed out that calling a 17% extraction "underextracted" is relative to that study. Please understand- I support this standard and defend it. I hesitate to be too hard on those who practice a less efficient extraction, however, because I recognize that there might be a time and a place for less efficient extractions when used by a competent professional who knows what she is doing.
Peter G wrote: I personally find that less efficient extractions can emphasize sweetness and aroma, while de-emphasizing astringency and acidity. This may be just the ticket for some coffees or some consumers.
Peter G wrote:throwing the "waste" word around is imposing a judgment on updosers, folks who are presumably making decisions based on flavor feedback. Do we want to do that?
nick wrote:I've actually have had some great siphon brews... but at 3-3.5 minute total extraction times. I always wanted to try some Clover brews with 3-3.5 minute brew times. Is saving the one or two minutes really worth the extra trouble and the extra coffee?
Andy Schecter wrote:A lot is made nowadays of Relationship Coffee, Direct Trade, working closely with the farmers, etc. Do these cherished growers understand what happens to their coffee? Does the laborer who just struggled to carry a back-breaking load of hand-picked cherries down the mountain know that 25%, or 35%, or even 50% of their coffee is pissed away into the compost heap because of our absurd overdosed, underextracted brewing practices? How does it make them feel when we tell them? Do we have the guts to tell them?
Marshall wrote:I may be stepping out on a limb here, but I would expect most farmers (well, maybe not Price Peterson) to think "Hmmm. 35% waste means they have to buy 35% more coffee. It's all good!"
Peter G wrote:-I would really love to see some sort of indication of the progressive nature of extraction: i.e. a study showing what flavor components extract at what stages of extraction. We all assume that sugars and aromatics dissolve early, and alkaloids and other bitter compounds extract late. Anyone doing work or have data to support this idea?
This work was done by Ted Lingle, who grouped the flavors by molecular weight, with the light weight ones dissolving quickly, and the heavy weight ones dissolving slowly. There are two light weight, fast dissolving, families that are fully present even in under-extracted coffee.
* Fruit acids have fruity or floral aromas and flavors, crisp tastes in sweeter brews, and sour tastes in less sweet ones. These dissolve the fastest
* Maillard compounds have the aromas and flavors of toasted grain, wood, tannins, or nuts; and tastes which are sharply bitter in less sweet brews, and warm, round, and malty in sweeter ones. These dissolve more slowly than the fruit acids, but will still all get into even the most under-extracted cup or shot
There are also two heavy weight, slow dissolving families which require high solubles yields to reach their full strength.
* Caramels have caramel, vanilla or chocolate flavors and a sweet taste. Since almost all sugars in green coffee are caramelized during the roast, these are the primary source of sweetness in coffee. Dark caramels, which taste bitter-sweet, dissolve more slowly than light caramels, which taste more sugary. Some light caramels will get into even lower extractions, but require higher extraction rates to be completely dissolved.
* Dry distillates are reduced (burnt) caramels and maillard compounds that become dominant in dark roasts. They have the aromas and flavors of clove, tobacco, peat, or turpeny, a dully bitter, ashen taste in less sweet brews, and a bitter-sweet molasses taste in sweeter brews. These dissolve very slowly, but are tasteable at very low concentrations. Their presence is usually a good reason to keep extraction levels fairly low.
Peter G wrote: I understand that there is some hope that there will be a scrap over whether less-efficient extractions are de facto "wrong"
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