Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

press, drip, syphon, clover

Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby Michael Phillips on Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:58 pm

Wow, fascinating and aptly timed thread nick. I am currently attempting to break down what we are getting out of our clover brews at the Chicago store I work in. We are a fairly high volume location that runs 3 clovers at full capacity during our peak hours. While producing good coffee as quickly as we can is important, I assure you that our switch from urn brewing to clovers had nothing to do with it being a faster and fresher version of average brews, we actually really believe it can very repeatably produce excellent coffee. We have however not broken down our brews by TDS measurements plotted on control charts, instead going the way of simply experimenting, tasting and adjusting them everyday. I am very excited now that I have gotten an extract mojo up and running to be able to analyze the brew specs we tend to use in a more scientific manner. My initial attempts however have been somewhat awkward as it does not seem to be suited to higher dose to water ratio brews as is common with clovers. I could however simply be ignorant to the proper way to use it as I am still playing with things. Is there anyone who has done some work with the mojo specifically relating to clovers that would care to help out and start some brew studies?
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby IanClark on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:34 am

I made some comments earlier speculating about why you can get very inconsistent readings from Clover extractions and my thought was that the extractions themselves were inconsistent, however I've since discovered that the problem lay in my failure to filter the extracts to remove suspended solids - cellulose that you don't want to include in your calculation of solubles yield and can interfere with the reading. You've got to do this whenever you're brewing without proper filtration (press pot, clover, etc).
Last edited by IanClark on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby Edwin Martinez on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:59 pm

John P wrote:
Do different coffees extract differently due to how they absorb water?

Does the same coffee with different roast levels absorb water differently?

Is 60g per 1 L brewed the same or different than 60 g per 800ml and then 200 ml added after brewing is finished? If different, in what respect? I don't have a grasp on that.


Yes and Yes due to Density and Moisture Content.

Obviously the roast, cooling, degassing, storage, stale-ing process will all impact a beans density and moisture content. This is where roasted beans are much like green. While low porosity is always low permeability high porosity does not mean high permeability.

Their density is directly correlated to porosity, but not necessarily permeability. If a highly porous bean has high moisture content, it is not very permeable. This is good. This means there is oil or solubles to be extracted.

Different coffees extract differently due to the way they absorb water as do different roasts of even the exact same bag of coffee over time.

60g/liter is very different than 60g/800ml + 200ml. Adding water later does not change what you've already extracted, however using less water in the beginning limits what you can extract. I think many use this technique of updosing coffee ( or using less water at first) then adding water in cupping, french press, pour over, any cold brewed iced bvg etc... which is very different than preinfusion in espresso where you release and prep extractables to be "rinsed" out of the beans.

If you are going to make a cup of coffee with Xg coffee but you instead use twice as much and the same amount of water as before because you're in a rush and you want that sweet, non bitter, NOW!... no matter how you slice it, many will call this wasteful and economic sustainability may be in question even if you have more business because people like the taste of your product more. However if you do it because you make a delicious cup that can't be created ANY other way, than I say WASTE TASTES GREAT! Just be sure to charge appropriately for that delicious waste. Farmers don't want to pay the price of specialty folks not being economically sustainable. We need you. Don't use any more than necessary, but use everything you need to make the best cup possible.
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby IanClark on Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:09 am

Edwin Martinez wrote:WASTE TASTES GREAT! .


I fully expect to see this on a t-shirt at the next SCAA. =P
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby Michael Phillips on Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:08 pm

Hey folks,

I was curious, can anyone point me toward the studies being cited for the extraction percentages preferred by most consumers?
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby IanClark on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:30 am

Mike -there may be a citation in Ted Lingle's Coffee Brewing Handbook (from SCAA)? I don't have any copies available right now I'm afraid. Sivitz probably has a reference too (again, foolishly let out on loan...!)
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Re: Water-to-coffee ratios: a Coffeed throwdown!

Postby JeremyRaths on Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:31 am

65 grams
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