do you turn your machine off at night

la marzocco, synesso, simonelli, cimbali etc

Do you turn your espresso machine off at night?

Poll ended at Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:32 pm

yes
9
18%
no
41
82%
 
Total votes : 50

do you turn your machine off at night

Postby scottlucey on Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:32 pm

This may seem silly/stupid, I'm not necessarily looking for debate but mostly numbers.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Robert Goble on Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:51 pm

Have been told that the continuous expansion and contraction of metal and parts will actually shorten life expectancy. I have no data on this though.

R.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Brent on Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:24 pm

Robert Goble wrote:Have been told that the continuous expansion and contraction of metal and parts will actually shorten life expectancy. I have no data on this though.

R.


That is my understanding also, and yeah it could be an urban legend, but it kind of makes sense.

We have always left the machine on, to cover the "what if we wake in the middle of the night and want coffee?" scenario... (our roastery is about 10 steps from our house)

But we also left our home machine on 24/7 for the same reason before that.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby John P on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:48 pm

Going from a state of relaxation to a state of readiness too quick, too often can be harmful to your equipment.

Besides, what is the refractory period on the average espresso machine anyways? :)
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Ben King on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:52 pm

I didn't, but for the last year I've had my 110V Synesso single group (home machine) on a timer (10 hours on, 14 off). I've not had any mechanical problems yet and have noticed enough difference in energy consumption to show up clearly on my electricity bill.

I could see it being a bigger problem in a machine with both stainless & copper in the hot water circuit.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby xristrettox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:58 pm

John P wrote:Besides, what is the refractory period on the average espresso machine anyways? :)


Refractory period? I always thought one shot was good enough... :shock:
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Robert Csar on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:45 pm

i always thought that turning your machine off & on stirs up the sediment build-up in the bottom of your boilers...

?
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby terry on Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:11 am

So far the poll shows that 19% have machines that are rapidly developing scale. How fast scale develops is based on the quality of the water being used

Scale develops at the juncture of hot and cold. This is why you will find scale deposits at the entrance and exit points on many fittings leading to and from the boiler. On a LM the pressure stat "T" is the typical area to build scale, even with the machine hot.

Leaving the machine on 24/7 is the best solution for longevity. Timers on machines that turn the machine off 100% will cause a rapid build of scale. Turning the machine on and off will have the same results.

Expansion and contraction of fittings will cause addition wear and potential leaks, as noted.

Leave your machine on........ you never know when your going to want a coffee.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Emily Oak on Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:27 am

Does anyone know the power usage of an 'idle' machine? (on but not pumping out coffees).

I've always had a problem with the power that is wasted when the machine is on but not necessarily brewing/espressing coffee 24/7. Enviro-guilt as such...
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Brett Hanson on Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:24 pm

Emily Oak wrote:Does anyone know the power usage of an 'idle' machine? (on but not pumping out coffees).

I've always had a problem with the power that is wasted when the machine is on but not necessarily brewing/espressing coffee 24/7. Enviro-guilt as such...


If someone wants to volunteer their machine, I'd be glad to stop by with a data logger. The ideal setup is a less-than-tidy install where you have access to the individual conductors, so we can get a current probe around one of them (not the whole bundle). PM me if you're interested.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby phaelon56 on Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:28 am

Emily Oak wrote:Does anyone know the power usage of an 'idle' machine? (on but not pumping out coffees).

I've always had a problem with the power that is wasted when the machine is on but not necessarily brewing/espressing coffee 24/7. Enviro-guilt as such...


Perhaps you can assuage your guilt by considering a possible alternative - large numbers of customers with their own prosumer espresso machine at home - leaving them on for half the day (or 24x7 as many do) with thousands upon thousands of 1.3 liter boilers being cycled on and off to keep the water hot. So much more efficient to have them just visit a cafe instead ;-)
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Brent on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:04 pm

Emily Oak wrote:Does anyone know the power usage of an 'idle' machine? (on but not pumping out coffees).

I've always had a problem with the power that is wasted when the machine is on but not necessarily brewing/espressing coffee 24/7. Enviro-guilt as such...


If I remember correctly, Danny from alt.coffee did a test years ago checking power useage when comparing a machine being turned off overnight etc etc and found there was basically no difference in power consumption.

Also remember that the rating of a machine (say 5000w) is the maximum draw not the actual - because the machine is maintaining heat, not heating as such.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Brett Hanson on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:00 pm

Brent wrote:If I remember correctly, Danny from alt.coffee did a test years ago checking power useage when comparing a machine being turned off overnight etc etc and found there was basically no difference in power consumption.

Also remember that the rating of a machine (say 5000w) is the maximum draw not the actual - because the machine is maintaining heat, not heating as such.


I guess I could see both ways. My guess is that at any one time the heating element is using 1000W or 1kW. So, after an hour, you've used 1kWh which is around 10 cents in these parts. If your shop's closed for 10 hours a night, maybe you're only out $1 each day. So, over the course of a year, you're paying about $365 for the privilege of sleeping in 15 more minutes before going to the shop for your first shift. On the other hand, that's an iphone and a month of service you could have instead.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Rich Westerfield on Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:07 am

Brett Hanson wrote:
Brent wrote:I guess I could see both ways. My guess is that at any one time the heating element is using 1000W or 1kW. So, after an hour, you've used 1kWh which is around 10 cents in these parts. If your shop's closed for 10 hours a night, maybe you're only out $1 each day. So, over the course of a year, you're paying about $365 for the privilege of sleeping in 15 more minutes before going to the shop for your first shift. On the other hand, that's an iphone and a month of service you could have instead.


If your labor is free. Otherwise, that 15 minutes equates to 91.25 manhours over the course of a year.
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby terry on Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:28 am

Brett Hanson wrote:
Brent wrote:If I remember correctly, Danny from alt.coffee did a test years ago checking power useage when comparing a machine being turned off overnight etc etc and found there was basically no difference in power consumption.

Also remember that the rating of a machine (say 5000w) is the maximum draw not the actual - because the machine is maintaining heat, not heating as such.


I guess I could see both ways. My guess is that at any one time the heating element is using 1000W or 1kW. So, after an hour, you've used 1kWh which is around 10 cents in these parts. If your shop's closed for 10 hours a night, maybe you're only out $1 each day. So, over the course of a year, you're paying about $365 for the privilege of sleeping in 15 more minutes before going to the shop for your first shift. On the other hand, that's an iphone and a month of service you could have instead.


Again, I think that the assumed power savings are for not, when compared to the potential damage caused by scale development.

A machine left on will on cycle power to the elements when the temp drops below the desired setting, which is going to be a random number based upon the environment in which the machine is housed.

To turn the machine off every night only to turn it back on the next day will result in the heater running (as Brett noted) 15 -20 minutes before reaching the target temperature. My guess is that this would result in higher power consumption. Also 15 minutes will not result in a stable temperature, typically.

It should also be noted that the damage I mention will not be visable in many cases until the boiler is opened. The Scace 2 device resulted in our techs finding many single boiler machines with scaled heat exchangers, which caused low pressure readings at the groups. The machines that were found to be faulty were all turn off at night, to save energy............

Espresso machine descaling, or power savings is really what the choices are, it seems. I say leave it on, you never know when you might want a coffee :D
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Re: do you turn your machine off at night

Postby Les Quon on Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:12 pm

terry wrote: I say leave it on, you never know when you might want a coffee :D


Best answer ever...
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