NYTimes: Blue Bottle, SF, Japanese Syphon Bar

[Mark Prince]

[original title: Cheers to SF's Blue Bottle Cafe for Vac Pots and NYTimes]

Woot. Check it out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dinin ... ?ref=style

I first spotted and reported on these halogen stations way back in 2003 at the Boston Show and occasionally bring them up again with cafes looking for something different (Billy was looking into importing these).

It's extremely cool to see a cafe finally get them into service in the US! It looked for a while like a Vancouver cafe MIGHT go this route, but pricing / importation / minimum orders killed the idea. I'm guessing that $20K Blue Bottle paid was not just for the one station, but to import the minimum number of units.

As an aside, the story quoted the Clover as $11K again. I thought the price was up to $13K late last year?

Mark

[Alistair]

Looks fantastic! Great work Blue Bottle.


Mark the Clover US retail has been $11k for quite some time.

[onocoffee]

I don't know if Blue Bottle had to import a minimum number of units, but I doubt it. The halogen devices are shockingly expensive (I know, I recently received a quote on them) but visually stunning and quite sexy.

The article? Kind of a big YAWN for me.

What started out as a fascinating piece on an artful way to make coffee, then degraded into a fluff piece about an automatic brewer - boring.

I enjoyed reading (and wanted to read more) about Freemans' adventure in importing the Hario to America. I loved Jay Egami's quote:

"If you just want equipment you're not ready."

Such a poignant statement. Very master-like. Very "Mr. Miyagi." And, without knowing it, a concise indictment of our community's current machine lust.

"He's invested time. He's invested interest. He is ready."

Gotta love it. It's a story of a journey through our craft. A sample of the Japanese approach where mastery of craftsmanship is a life-long dedication that much more considerate, poignant and compelling than merely pressing a button on an automatic brewer.

As Freeman stated:

"The whirlpool, it messes with your mind. There's no way to rush it."

And he spent months just creating whirlpools with water in order to develop muscle memory and does a daily five-minute warm up!

That's what our craft is all about: dedication and commitment.

The rest belongs in a Starbucks.

[Rich Westerfield]

No idea how much the five burner unit costs or what else was involved in the $20K, but in doing some research on this last year a three burner halogen rig was somewhere around $6500 + shipping across the Pacific (we never got farther than that). So a five burner could easily be $10K or more I'd think. The Barismo kids could likely confirm this.

We really hope the investment is worth it for BB. Would love to see more of these pop up around the country - and we're too chicken to take a lead role.

Have never been to Ray's in Philly (a restaurant, not a coffee bar), but I understand there's some sort of siphon setup there that a lot of Philly folks swear by. Jay - have you been there? (It's mentioned on CH in the Philly threads).

[James Hoffmann]

The rest belongs in a Starbucks.

So you're gonna move all your brewed coffee across to Syphon brewing then?

[Jaime van Schyndel]

Rich,
You can get a single burner for $320+ S&H to the US. Buy six and it's still cheaper than 20k but not quite as hip and flashy. They also have a fantastic 2 cupper pourover 'chemex' through hario if anyone is interested.

I have been very happy with butane burners which have more control and don't need to be cooled constantly, but simply aren't as sexy as what most people are looking for. The article is a bit silly and meanders through several different topics. Quoting the 'founder of cup of excellence' about drip coffee then talking about the 'whirlpool' and then Clover's options :-p

Same applies to the astringency thread on Clover, if you whisk it or over stir anything, the fines will over extract and it has nothing to do with your grinder or measuring TDS in an aeropress. Agitation above what's necessary for full immersion is bad. I have never seen a good extraction that 'whirlpooled' in vac pot. Fines migrate to the middle and you get an uneven extraction but a nicely domed 'puck'. The best in vac pot extractions are based on smelling it to decipher brew time and only stirring in a somewhat cross hatch mostion just enough to immerse then later to break crust. The idea is not to swirl. A good draw down will finish timely and have a smooth lightly domed (but no more than the filter's natural curve) surface in the puck. The top brewing chamber will also be 'cleaned' during the draw down as there will be very little coffee residue on the glass(unlike the article photo).

I still don't make a very good vac pot compared to ben or god forbid Simon who has so much skill, he can identify the temp by how it bubbles, but I know it's my favorite brew method for a regular cup of coffee. I can barely finish a TCA-2 brew without buzzing so I can't imagine how somone could run a bar of 5 cuppers successfully. 2 cuppers are easier to stir, have better draw down control and the portion size is ideal for one cup service.

-'No breakage allowed'

[onocoffee]

So you're gonna move all your brewed coffee across to Syphon brewing then?

One thing is for certain: it will not be the automatic brewing system discussed in the NYT article.


As for The Spro, I see us remaining with French Pressed Coffee for the foreseeable future.

However, when it comes to our Coffee Project - currently, anything is possible and everything is game. That said, I've been thinking and exploring alternative brewing methods that produce a delicious cup while maintaining "craft" and maybe even a level of theatrics to visually enhance the experience.

At this point, I can't say if Syphon will be the method for us. I am leaning in the direction of another Japanese method of brewing that I observed during WBC that I found very compelling. That said, there's still quite a bit more exploration and development of our project before any final decision is made.

One thing I can say is that hitting a button on a Fetco 2051 or using a squeegie is anything but visually stimulating, with the latter reminding me of trips to the petrol station.

Rich-
I have heard rumors of that place in Philly but I have not had the time to visit the City of Brotherly Love lately. Perhaps after the Jam in Easton. Maybe we can Road Trip with James and Jon...



-1024

[James Hoffmann]

I am completely sold on syphon brewing, but there are just too many things higher up on the shopping list right now (and too many brewers lying around already) to justify getting one.

Love seeing them in action though - wonderful, genuine theatre.

[Christopher Schooley]

I am intrigued. What they do not really discuss in the article though is that the system is really the burners and that vac pots are already used in different capacities. I would have liked to see them talk more about the discision to use halogen compared maybe with butane or maybe even an IR set up. Did anyone see the IR grills on Iron Chef America? Jam in Easton? I have been desperately wanting to visit the Crayola factory.

[Aaron Ultimo]

I've been to Ray's. It's okay. They have the siphons on the counter and ready to go and you can choose from a bunch of coffees from their menu. I think the biggest problem they suffer from is that their coffee itself didn't seem to be that great. It's very low profile and I think that they have been there for years just doing their thing and not getting much attention for it. They also sell the Siphons there, but I'm not sure what brand.

[coffeetaster]

Ray's in Philly has been around for many years. In the early 1990's I managed a restaurant in center city Philadlephia (before my coffee career) and would send servers to fetch coffee for an afternoon break between lunch and dinner services.

Back then the coffee was great! It was something special, as it was a novelty since this was before the specialty coffee craze hot Philly and found me!

Spencer

[Jim Saborio]

Does the halogen element make for a faster boil?

I see the controls in the picture, but wonder what they do. I can't wait to try my new stir technique tomorrow morning... just have to find some bamboo.

[Mark Prince]

What, doesn't everyone have a bamboo paddle stick for their vacpots?

Mark

[Mark Prince]

Some photos of Blue Bottle in operation with the vac station:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuhaib/set ... 781751074/

Mark

[Daniel Humphries]

I just went to the new Blue Bottle last night. It's beautiful! Unfortunately, we didn't get there until late and the siphon bar was closed down. But we James and Arno and head barista Sarah were so nice!

As good as my macchiato was, what really blew me away was the slow-drip cold process coffee. It was like a little cherry liqueur. Amazing!

Keep up the great work, guys!

[Kevin Cash]

...what really blew me away was the slow-drip cold process coffee. It was like a little cherry liqueur. Amazing!

I'm intrigued, tell me more!!



please.

[Jason Haeger]

What, doesn't everyone have a bamboo paddle stick for their vacpots?

Mark

No, but I do have an Aeropress paddle.

[Oliver]

I liked the general concept of the article.
Shops focused on brewed coffee.
Whether it's clover, vacuum, press, pour over, I find it really exciting to talk about coffee, not espresso. But it's true that brewed coffee is my true love, so just ignore me. But brewed coffee does seem to be under valued compared to the espresso machine in commercial cafes.

[Jim Saborio]

brewed coffee does seem to be under valued compared to the espresso machine in commercial cafes.

Undervalued by the consumer?

I was surprised at how many professed their love for brewed coffee on the "I've only had like two good shots" thread.

You're not alone here anyway.

I think bamboo paddles are the new portafilters.

[Rich Westerfield]

What, doesn't everyone have a bamboo paddle stick for their vacpots?

Mark

No, but I do have an Aeropress paddle.

If you bought the $39.99 deluxe version, you can have that paddle monogrammed.

j/k

We've actually sold a half dozen Aeropresses since Christmas. And I've taught two of the buyers how to do the inverted method.

[nick]

Speaking as an east-coast guy...

Um... was somebody NOT brewing coffee?

After visiting Vancouver, it's fascinating to me how espresso has truly taken over in certain markets. Talking to folks, there was clearly a "movement" towards promoting and celebrating origin coffees and all that jazz that we like to talk about.

It's interesting... here on the east coast, it's simply about introducing these amazing coffees to people, improving the coffee that they already drink. In parts of the west coast, especially the PNW, it's that PLUS having to first wean people off of espresso drinks.

In many ways, the Clover makes a lot of sense in those more espresso-centric markets... it sorta resembles espresso making in a really general sense.

For me, it all begs the question... is there a "god shot" ideal brewing method? I mean, over the past few years, the global specialty industry seems to be more and more accepting of the WBC-type paradigm of espresso as a real standard. Is there such a thing as the ultimate "brewed" brewing method?

Stack the "perfect" french press, "perfect" aeropress, Clover, flat-bottom drip, manual-pour/Melitta, Eva Solo, vacpot/siphon, urn (that's for you, DZ), percolator (yuh), etc. Is there a gold standard? Can there be one?

Are certain coffees really-truly better on different brewing methods, or is that being overly relativistic?

(this should probably be a new thread, I guess... excuse the threadjack)

[James Hoffmann]

I think the only thing people have ever agreed on with brewed coffee is that 18-22% extraction tastes best. However brew temp and profile, filtration medium and the balance of grind and time offer differences in what is extracted and perhaps some methods do suit certain coffees better.

[Mark Prince]

For me, it all begs the question... is there a "god shot" ideal brewing method? I mean, over the past few years, the global specialty industry seems to be more and more accepting of the WBC-type paradigm of espresso as a real standard. Is there such a thing as the ultimate "brewed" brewing method?

Stack the "perfect" french press, "perfect" aeropress, Clover, flat-bottom drip, manual-pour/Melitta, Eva Solo, vacpot/siphon, urn (that's for you, DZ), percolator (yuh), etc. Is there a gold standard? Can there be one?

To completely thread jack:

One thing I'd like to see the SCAA do is continue the thing they started with the brewing standards. I'd like to see the org come out with not a "gold standard" for brewing methods, but a base standard - for all the popular methods:

- press pot
- vacuum brewing
- manual drip
- auto drip (home)
- moka pot
- espresso (oooo contentious)
- etc.

There's these two minor realities I often realise in interacting with consumers a lot that I don't think the SCAA truly knows:

- Educated consumers often know that the only machine to pass SCAA "approvals" (giving the consumers' perspective) is the technivorm.

- Educated consumers eventually find out about the SCAA's brewing standard for drip.

I don't think the SCAA realises how much weight these carry with consumers. It's considered a "gold standard" and let's face facts - the technivorm would be dead in the water without its rep.

In a podcast interview with Rob Stevens (actually, I can't recall if this was aired or not, or if it was my private convo with Rob) back in Charlotte, I brought this up, and suggested the SCAA roll with this, to achieve several things - better consumer awareness of the SCAA brand, better education for the consumer, and better marketing / educational tools for the retail membership.

Roll with what? Roll with

a) coming out with brewing standards (as a baseline, not as a definitive, this way or the highway) for other brewing methods - discussed, debated, and tested by experts in that particular field (ie, for a vacpot standard, get together people who excel in vacpot usage and brewing methods).

b) once those results are done, publish them but leave them open to amendments, improvements. Don't let them stagnate.

c) start establishing SCAA protocols and baselines for other brewing equipment, much like the vaunted brewing standard that Technivorm passed and uses heavily in its marketing.

These things, perhaps surprisingly, ****matter**** to consumers, and while there will always be points of contention and debate if a baseline standard is set, if it's marketed and written properly, will be a huge boon and, IMO, nothing but good for the SCAA, for retailer members, and for consumers in general.

Mark
PS - in a way, the "espresso standard" is already set, vis a vis the WBC / USBC standard. If marketed as a "baseline, starting point to good espresso" and not a 'this is the only way to do it", I'm pretty sure it'd be welcome in all quarters.

[Chris Baca]

Whether it's clover, vacuum, press, pour over, I find it really exciting to talk about coffee, not espresso. But it's true that brewed coffee is my true love, so just ignore me. But brewed coffee does seem to be under valued compared to the espresso machine in commercial cafes.

But, but, espresso IS brewed coffee. It's just that for some reason people love the idea of throwing shitloads of different coffees in some weird blend, then using an espresso machine to try to make the coffee taste like something it's not. Ridiculous. This has been on of the hardest parts of our single origin espresso program...people are like "yikes! this doesn't taste like normal espresso!" Well, it tastes like that particular coffee brewed through an espresso machine. Which is where I'd like to see more espresso based stuff go...highlighting the coffee! Use amazing single origin coffees to make spro with, you can do it!

Different brewing methods accent different things, I'm not sure if there can be some kind of god shot ideal brewing method. I love my french press, espresso, and am now diggin the vac pot, for different reasons...sure you could have a personal favorite but I think to have a standardized be all and end all method is not possible.

Anyway. Espresso is just another brewing method. You can use your espresso machine however you want, it's just that we as an industry don't seem ready to shake the notion that the La Marzocco on your bar doesn't have to be just another latte machine.

Solid.

[Mark Prince]

BTW, just so I put my money where my mouth is, re my last post in this thread.

I will happily volunteer my time and services to take part in a siphon brewing standards sub committee, or a press pot sub committee, and provide the necessary marketing tools (photos, verbage, step by step, yada yada) for the SCAA to use based on whatever any such subcomittee comes up with.

I've written two published articles (with photography) now on 'how to use a press pot' that have been well received by the general public, and host an ancient (but still major traffic hits) mini vac pot faq... which needs a serious overhaul anyway.

I could go into more detail about my qualifications for both areas, but I'm more interested in some engaging round table discussions, both over the cloud and in person discussing, debating, refining and setting up basic standards for these great brewing methods.

Mark