Royal E Doserless

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Royal E Doserless

Postby Ed Kaufmann on Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:00 pm

I have always heard that the best espresso grinders out there are conical-burr grinders. What are some of the advantages and disadvantages to having a flat-burr grinder for espresso. Has anyone worked with or heard anything good or bad about the Mazzer Royal E Doserless Flat-Burr Espresso Grinder? We are using them now and they seem to work great. The fan in the back keeps everything cool and the timer allows for somewhat consistent dosing. It will grind 22g in about 4.5 seconds. They seem very easy to clean when performing our weekly break-down burr cleaning. Any thoughts?
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Mike White on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:20 am

Ed I've never worked with the Royal E Doserless, but maybe we can set up a grinder exchange (.com). I'll trade you an E Robur for that flat burr for a couple weeks if you want...
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Ed Kaufmann on Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:27 pm

I will see how the owners of the grinders feel about that. I have worked with Royal and Robur E's now. I think that sounds like fun. It will be good to have my baristas work with a few different grinders too.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Alistair Durie on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:27 pm

We've had one of these on our bar for about 3 weeks and have been really enjoying it. The immediate efficiency of getting away from a dosing lever is a wonderful feeling and really speeds up work flow. The quality of shots has been great. I can confidently recommend this grinder.

I've heard about some modifications that have been made (Kyle G??) if anyone can elaborate I'd be very interested.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Poul Mark on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:16 am

What Alistair, no Anfim? We have had an doserless e Robur on the bench since September, Chad used it at the National Barista Championship last October. Chad tried the Anfim for about a month, and went crazy with the inconsistency in the dosage. He also thought that he would get carpal tunnel syndrome from using it. We are big believers in the conical burr grinders, and find that they provide for better espresso than flat burr grinders. One thing to keep in mind, is that the Robur's need breaking in. We run around 150 - 200 lbs of coffee through them before they end up on our bench. If you want a more detailed discussion with Chad, don't hesitate to email him at chad@transcendcoffee.com. All of our baristas need to learn on the regular Robur, so that they understand dosing and the nuances of preparing the shot. Having said that, the doserless grinder on the bench is great for efficiency and wastage. It dumps right into the basket with very little clumping, even in the ridiculously dry climate of Alberta. All in all, we will use them again when we look at opening the next shop.
Cheers,
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Matthew P. Williams on Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:58 pm

Does the Royal use the same burr set as the Major?
Mmm, juicy. Tastes like juice. Bean juice.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby phaelon56 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:58 pm

According to the company web site the Major, Royal and Stark all use the same 83 mm flat burr set but there's more than one option. The descriptive info is in Italian (despite my having selected the English language version of the site) and I can't quite figure the difference but it appears that one set is standard casting and the other choice is
titanium alloy - aka "unobtanium" :wink:
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby xristrettox on Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:31 pm

Poul Mark wrote: We run around 150 - 200 lbs of coffee through them before they end up on our bench.


Really? You burn through that much just to get them ready?

What ever happened to just adjusting the grind as you go?

Just seems like an awful waste of coffee.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Michael Phillips on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:40 pm

Having seen the first lbs through 3 or so new Robur Es, I can agree that they need seasoning. 150 to 200 sounds excessive but it certainly takes a bit. When ours first landed in our Chicago shops they were spiting out cubes... literally small cubes of coffee falling into the portafilter. The dosing was a bit inconsistent at this point as well. Now however (several hundreds of pounds later) they are working like magic, smooth, consistent and fast. However, even when they were spiting out cubes, we could still pull good shots, it was just really disconcerting...
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Poul Mark on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:02 pm

Thanks for the back up Michael, and Congrats on the great win by the way, I look forward to seeing you compete in Atlanta. It is true that the Roburs need a lot of breaking in. When we first put our first Robur on the back bench, Chad, our roaster and champion barista said that it would need 150 - 200 lbs of coffee run through before it would be ready for the front bench. I didn't believe him. At the time we were using a Mahlkonig Vario on the front bench. After about 50lbs of seasoning on the Robur, we compared the coffee and found dramatic differences. Similar to what Michael commented about, the grind was significantly different and the taste quality on the unseasoned Robur was stark and acidic. So much so, that I gave samples of the different coffee to my friend at the U of A, in order for him to take photos of the grind, under his electron microscope. The bottom line is that the Roburs need significant seasoning. In Australia, it is common practice to run 200 lbs of coffee through a Robur in order to prepare it for use. We ran old, stale coffee through both of our Roburs, so it didn't cost much other than a lot of time. Seriously, if you are buying a new Robur, plan on breaking it in, unless you want your customers to hate your espresso for the first couple of weeks.
Cheers,
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Alistair Durie on Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:23 am

Our espresso was tasting pretty fine the same day I unpacked the grinder.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby David LaMont on Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:42 pm

Does anyone have any theories as to what the "seasoning" does to the machines? Does it round the edges of the anti-static chute? Dull the burrs slightly? Break in the motor? We're still mid-seasoning (about 960 on the counter) with our Robur E , but I am really curious as to what is happening that will end clumping, etc. Maybe it is a bit of backlash against the kind of "seasoning" I've seen in practice on some espresso machines.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Robert Goble on Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:05 pm

Just to clarify
We use the Robur E, not the Royal E.

R.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby seankohmescher on Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:45 pm

Well, we bought a Robur E and it has been the most frustrating grinder that I have ever had.

As stated above, the grounds were clumpy, crema was oddly spotted with brown circles (not flecking), and the grind discrepancy was only within 3 grams.

A newly trained barista does a lot better than that before they start there FIRST barista shift.

We have run approximately 50 pounds of coffee through it and are still getting a 2.5 gram discrepancy. Is this normal?

I think a lot of it has to do with the square clumping that comes out of the anti-static shoot.

Is there another word that be used instead of "seasoning?" This is not seasoning. How about "break-in period?"

Any thoughts or recommendations, other than those listed above, would be much appreciated.
What gram discrepancies should be expected?

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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby nick on Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:00 pm

We removed the "un-hopper" and removed the extruder/screen. It's more spray-ing out the bottom of the cone, but perhaps with more control over your dose... and no clumping.

I did say "perhaps."
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Alistair Durie on Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:12 am

seankohmescher wrote:Well, we bought a Robur E and it has been the most frustrating grinder that I have ever had.
As stated above, the grounds were clumpy, crema was oddly spotted with brown circles (not flecking), and the grind discrepancy was only within 3 grams.


The discrepancy in each dose weight has everything to do with your coffee and your blend ratio, as the bean density of each component will grind differently and each dose will be a random recipe (a 60/20/20 blend will never actually be 60/20/20).

This variation will be a reality with any timed grinder. When the timer reads 3.4 seconds the motor is being cycled for that exact time. How your coffee responds is another thing -- the result will always be somewhat random. In my opinion this is still 100 times better than any grinder without a timer.

Disappointments are based on expectations.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby phaelon56 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:11 am

Poul Mark wrote: The bottom line is that the Roburs need significant seasoning. In Australia, it is common practice to run 200 lbs of coffee through a Robur in order to prepare it for use. We ran old, stale coffee through both of our Roburs, so it didn't cost much other than a lot of time. Seriously, if you are buying a new Robur, plan on breaking it in, unless you want your customers to hate your espresso for the first couple of weeks.


There is speculation in some quarters that the "seasoning" is really a break in period for the burrs. If this is true then every time a new set of burrs is installed it will take about the same amount of time to season them. Have any of you gone through a burr change yet and if so can you comment?
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby seankohmescher on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:28 am

Nick. What are you calling the
"unhopper?"


In my opinion this is still 100 times better than any grinder without a timer.

Unless this grinder can become more consistent, then it is 100 times worse than a well trained barista.

There is speculation in some quarters that the "seasoning" is really a break in period for the burrs. If this is true then every time a new set of burrs is installed it will take about the same amount of time to season them. Have any of you gone through a burr change yet and if so can you comment?


I was told the same thing, but have also been told that it would be fine (after break-in) with a new set of burrs. There is obviously a lot going on that we do not understand.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby Matthew P. Williams on Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:37 am

I've found that these grinders are quite sensitive to temperature changes within the grinder itself. For instance, if you walk up to the grinder after it has been sitting for a while, dose one shot, dose another, there is a wide margin of variance. However, once you get going and the grinder heats up, the intrashot variance becomes much slimmer.
Mmm, juicy. Tastes like juice. Bean juice.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby markpfaff on Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:55 pm

We recently got a Robur E at Victrola and encountered the clumping and also the inconsistency with dose when first starting up the grinder.
I was chatting with Sarah Dooley at Visions about modifying the static screen on the chute and she threw out the idea of trying an 'x' pattern so I did and it actually seemed to work a lot better! It was very easy to do, unscrew the doserless and rip off the old mesh screen pop in two wires in an x configuration, tape them on, and make sure you insulate the edges so grounds don't fall inside the body of the grinder. It greatly reduced clumping but still helps with static. Still not perfect but a lot better.
The dose IS inconsistent if the grinder has sat for a while. I attribute this to the grounds settling inside the shoot or maybe being pressed up against the static screen. After a few sets of shots it seems fine and the dosing consistency is within 1 gram variance.
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby seankohmescher on Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:00 pm

I thought that everyone should know, that after 300 pounds of coffee through the robur E, we are now very happy with it. It doses consistently within 0.3 grams. So, as many have said, and I don't know the reason, it is working flawlessly and the espresso tastes especially "fluffy."
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Re: Royal E Doserless

Postby m_w_b on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:18 am

Lots of good feedback on the Robur, which I have had many years of good times with-
but how about the Royal? Can anyone speak to the volume it can handle or how it's treated you?
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